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	<title>Comments on: Managing Hype:  The Case of Bioshock 2</title>
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	<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/</link>
	<description>A live show about video games</description>
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		<title>By: TorTeeYah</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7448</link>
		<dc:creator>TorTeeYah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7448</guid>
		<description>Just in case you did not know, Bioshock wasn&#039;t only made by 2k Boston. But also by 2k Australia who actually had a big part in making the game. I know its just me being picky but when the only good game developers in Australia help make a critically acclaimed game and never receive credit for it... ahh it just frustrates me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just in case you did not know, Bioshock wasn&#8217;t only made by 2k Boston. But also by 2k Australia who actually had a big part in making the game. I know its just me being picky but when the only good game developers in Australia help make a critically acclaimed game and never receive credit for it&#8230; ahh it just frustrates me.</p>
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		<title>By: DasMatt</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7444</link>
		<dc:creator>DasMatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7444</guid>
		<description>My main concern for Bioshock 2 would be the overall feel of the game. In a lot of so called &quot;scary&quot; FPS&#039;s, as you progress through the game and get better weapons, a lot of the things are no longer a threat, thus no longer scary. I was afraid the original Bioshock would have this problem, but it kept things interesting with new types of splicers and of course the Big Daddies. But in Bioshock 2, honestly what is a threat to you other than the Big Sister? Plus, the parts where you protect Little Sisters seem just like a gimmick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My main concern for Bioshock 2 would be the overall feel of the game. In a lot of so called &#8220;scary&#8221; FPS&#8217;s, as you progress through the game and get better weapons, a lot of the things are no longer a threat, thus no longer scary. I was afraid the original Bioshock would have this problem, but it kept things interesting with new types of splicers and of course the Big Daddies. But in Bioshock 2, honestly what is a threat to you other than the Big Sister? Plus, the parts where you protect Little Sisters seem just like a gimmick.</p>
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		<title>By: nikki n fargus 4ever</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7443</link>
		<dc:creator>nikki n fargus 4ever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7443</guid>
		<description>I can fully understand where your concerns are coming from. I had the same concerns for the better part of 6 months, and I was probably one of the biggest vocal detractors of this game on the many forums I frequent. As such a huge fan of the first, I thought to myself &quot;How could this not suck?&quot;, every new bit of information I discovered over the course of the past 6-8 months had me biting what was left my nails in nervousness. 

All that said, I picked up the game at midnight (EST) at my local wal-mart tonight, have been playing the past 4 hours and DAMN...Its fucking good. Thats all I will say, I won&#039;t compare it to the original yet or leave any impressions but I think you will be VERY pleasantly surprised. Most importantly it stays respectable to the solid groundwork laid down in first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can fully understand where your concerns are coming from. I had the same concerns for the better part of 6 months, and I was probably one of the biggest vocal detractors of this game on the many forums I frequent. As such a huge fan of the first, I thought to myself &#8220;How could this not suck?&#8221;, every new bit of information I discovered over the course of the past 6-8 months had me biting what was left my nails in nervousness. </p>
<p>All that said, I picked up the game at midnight (EST) at my local wal-mart tonight, have been playing the past 4 hours and DAMN&#8230;Its fucking good. Thats all I will say, I won&#8217;t compare it to the original yet or leave any impressions but I think you will be VERY pleasantly surprised. Most importantly it stays respectable to the solid groundwork laid down in first.</p>
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		<title>By: DavetheZombie</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7442</link>
		<dc:creator>DavetheZombie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7442</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t quite understand the pick with playing a Big Daddy. I didn&#039;t necessarily feel anything toward the main character in the first game, much less gave a damn about his story. It&#039;s practically going from a speechless man to a speechless monster, which doesn&#039;t make that much difference to me. Maybe it&#039;s the idea of being a hunk of crap, feeling so heavy and that you felt more flexible as a regular guy in the first? Maybe. 
Anyway, I don&#039;t have too many worries about the game, or even hype for that matter. I think I&#039;ll enjoy it regardless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t quite understand the pick with playing a Big Daddy. I didn&#8217;t necessarily feel anything toward the main character in the first game, much less gave a damn about his story. It&#8217;s practically going from a speechless man to a speechless monster, which doesn&#8217;t make that much difference to me. Maybe it&#8217;s the idea of being a hunk of crap, feeling so heavy and that you felt more flexible as a regular guy in the first? Maybe.<br />
Anyway, I don&#8217;t have too many worries about the game, or even hype for that matter. I think I&#8217;ll enjoy it regardless.</p>
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		<title>By: NekTM</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7441</link>
		<dc:creator>NekTM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7441</guid>
		<description>&quot;Big Daddy’s are huge, lumbering behemoths that are incredibly dangerous foes. If you now take control of this character, doesn’t that make you the biggest, baddest character in Rapture? How is the player supposed to feel threatened in most combat situations?&quot;

Yes! This was my whole concern with the game. I didn&#039;t mind multiplayer too much, but the whole idea of playing as a Big Daddy throughout the game just didn&#039;t sit well with me. Sure I&#039;m hyped for tomorrow, but I&#039;m afraid of not enjoying the game.

You&#039;re a Big Daddy, specifically a one that can use the drill, the rivet gun, AND you can use plasmids. You&#039;re the toughest guy in Rapture. The Big Sister doesn&#039;t concern me as a threat. Remember Big Daddies in the first? We were scared shitless by them. We thought they&#039;d be the toughest things in the game to kill. Yeah well Trap Bolts and Prox Mines have something to say about that. I&#039;m not going to have that sense of fear or worry anymore. I&#039;m a Big Daddy, nothings going to scare or harm me.

As for the Big Sister..

I feel that the Big Sister will appear in encounters with you, do some kind of event, and then run away, or maybe fight you in a fixed battle until you do enough damage to her for her to run away. All in all, I don&#039;t think she&#039;s going to be as threatening as everyone thinks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Big Daddy’s are huge, lumbering behemoths that are incredibly dangerous foes. If you now take control of this character, doesn’t that make you the biggest, baddest character in Rapture? How is the player supposed to feel threatened in most combat situations?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes! This was my whole concern with the game. I didn&#8217;t mind multiplayer too much, but the whole idea of playing as a Big Daddy throughout the game just didn&#8217;t sit well with me. Sure I&#8217;m hyped for tomorrow, but I&#8217;m afraid of not enjoying the game.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re a Big Daddy, specifically a one that can use the drill, the rivet gun, AND you can use plasmids. You&#8217;re the toughest guy in Rapture. The Big Sister doesn&#8217;t concern me as a threat. Remember Big Daddies in the first? We were scared shitless by them. We thought they&#8217;d be the toughest things in the game to kill. Yeah well Trap Bolts and Prox Mines have something to say about that. I&#8217;m not going to have that sense of fear or worry anymore. I&#8217;m a Big Daddy, nothings going to scare or harm me.</p>
<p>As for the Big Sister..</p>
<p>I feel that the Big Sister will appear in encounters with you, do some kind of event, and then run away, or maybe fight you in a fixed battle until you do enough damage to her for her to run away. All in all, I don&#8217;t think she&#8217;s going to be as threatening as everyone thinks.</p>
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		<title>By: Coderandom</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7440</link>
		<dc:creator>Coderandom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7440</guid>
		<description>I pre-ordered this, and I&#039;m going to pick it up tomorrow.
I&#039;m having the same worries that you and other Bioshock fans are having, Nick.

I&#039;m most likely not going to play the multiplayer for a few days because to me it honestly doesn&#039;t sound very fun, and lately I&#039;ve mainly been drawn to my single-player games or the single-player part of my games.

I know it&#039;s not going to be near as good as the first, but it will be good. No doubt about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I pre-ordered this, and I&#8217;m going to pick it up tomorrow.<br />
I&#8217;m having the same worries that you and other Bioshock fans are having, Nick.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m most likely not going to play the multiplayer for a few days because to me it honestly doesn&#8217;t sound very fun, and lately I&#8217;ve mainly been drawn to my single-player games or the single-player part of my games.</p>
<p>I know it&#8217;s not going to be near as good as the first, but it will be good. No doubt about it.</p>
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		<title>By: dae</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7439</link>
		<dc:creator>dae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7439</guid>
		<description>someday when i think to myself &quot;man, i really wanna play bioshock again&quot;, i&#039;ll go pick up bioshock 2.  i feel like i should really want to revisit the world of rapture before i buy this.  it&#039;s not now, but maybe later this year.  i&#039;m sure it&#039;ll be more enjoyable that way, for me at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>someday when i think to myself &#8220;man, i really wanna play bioshock again&#8221;, i&#8217;ll go pick up bioshock 2.  i feel like i should really want to revisit the world of rapture before i buy this.  it&#8217;s not now, but maybe later this year.  i&#8217;m sure it&#8217;ll be more enjoyable that way, for me at least.</p>
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		<title>By: s1yfox</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7438</link>
		<dc:creator>s1yfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7438</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still very iffy on this game;the first one had a viceral grip on me..this one is kind of a loose one...will pick up later but not at full retail...at least not yet :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still very iffy on this game;the first one had a viceral grip on me..this one is kind of a loose one&#8230;will pick up later but not at full retail&#8230;at least not yet <img src='http://4playerpodcast.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Robbi3uk</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7437</link>
		<dc:creator>Robbi3uk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7437</guid>
		<description>I got the game a day early and from what I&#039;ve played, it&#039;s surprised me. I didn&#039;t expect it to come near matching Bioshock 1 but it really does. They have pulled off playing a big daddy surprisingly well and the world still gives me the same (good) vibes that the original did. Not to mention the multiplayer is kinda fun!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got the game a day early and from what I&#8217;ve played, it&#8217;s surprised me. I didn&#8217;t expect it to come near matching Bioshock 1 but it really does. They have pulled off playing a big daddy surprisingly well and the world still gives me the same (good) vibes that the original did. Not to mention the multiplayer is kinda fun!</p>
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		<title>By: G_money</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7436</link>
		<dc:creator>G_money</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7436</guid>
		<description>I thought I was the only one dissapointed with playing a Big Daddy.  You said what I was upset about.   I really couldn&#039;t figure out why that bothered me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought I was the only one dissapointed with playing a Big Daddy.  You said what I was upset about.   I really couldn&#8217;t figure out why that bothered me.</p>
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		<title>By: Sardunos</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7435</link>
		<dc:creator>Sardunos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7435</guid>
		<description>gameinformer has the most complete review so far, and pretty much just what I expected:

http://gameinformer.com/games/bioshock_2/b/ps3/archive/2010/02/08/review.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gameinformer has the most complete review so far, and pretty much just what I expected:</p>
<p><a href="http://gameinformer.com/games/bioshock_2/b/ps3/archive/2010/02/08/review.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://gameinformer.com/games/bioshock_2/b/ps3/archive/2010/02/08/review.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: Iront18</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7433</link>
		<dc:creator>Iront18</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7433</guid>
		<description>1.  There have been many sequels not developed by the same company that have been just as good as if not better than the original. Now, don&#039;t get me wrong, Bioshock 1 is held very highly in the gaming community as a wonderful form of art, but  members of 2K Marin were also part of that original developments process as well. Some of the devs worked on what is considered to be the best, most atmospheric part of Bioshock 1 ; Fort Frolic. I think this company shouldn&#039;t be underestimated, just because they aren&#039;t 2K Boston.

2. Arguably, Rapture could be considered the biggest character in all of the Bioshock lore.  Having seen it&#039;s already decrepit appearance after the fall of Andrew Ryan&#039;s Utopia vision and being absorbed in it, it&#039;s no wonder that they would have chosen the same place again only 10 years later. Seeing Rapture now, from a completely different perspective, both in terms of main character and philosophical viewpoint of Altruism, makes for a very interesting new take on the city. Sure, it&#039;s the same art-deco style atmosphere and has the same people in it, but thats the point. It&#039;s about the transformation, from good to bad and the attempt back to good again from the views of Sofia Lamb, Andrew Ryan and Sinclair. Out of many, one, and out of one, many.

3. While the multiplayer does seem &#039;tacked on&#039; so to speak, the concept of it remains very interesting. Having at least an original approach to the online experience, you take on the roll of someone before and during the major events of   the Fall of Rapture. This makes for an intriguing sort of prequel within a sequel aspect.  You see and interact with parts and areas of Rapture not seen before Bioshock 1. The inclusion of plasmids and weapons also seems fresh, although we&#039;ll see how it is gameplay wise. Certainly it doesn&#039;t compete with Modern Warfare 2 or Bad Compnay , etc, but maybe thats not the point. A Single player story within an online multiplayer is something to try to embrace.

4. The Good ol&#039; Big Daddy.  You play as the very first one, and the suit design is less than &#039;Big&#039;. You are the first prototype. You&#039;re tied to a little sister that still lives in Rapture.  It may seem like there isn&#039;t story there, but it can be pulled off. Perhaps a story about the driving force of being selfless while entrapped in the new Sofia Lamb Society of All over One can work? It may prove to be a sad tale, about hopeless redemption in sight of everything failing. That last push to save things, even if the Big Daddy is emotionless or whatever....who knows..

5. I kind of agree on this part. The biggest draw of Bioshock is indeed in how it tell it&#039;s sorrowful tale through recordings and the environment. Of course, the big daddy is going to be more action- oriented than Jack from the first game, but that doesn&#039;t mean it should be all about combat. Who knows on that. We&#039;ll see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.  There have been many sequels not developed by the same company that have been just as good as if not better than the original. Now, don&#8217;t get me wrong, Bioshock 1 is held very highly in the gaming community as a wonderful form of art, but  members of 2K Marin were also part of that original developments process as well. Some of the devs worked on what is considered to be the best, most atmospheric part of Bioshock 1 ; Fort Frolic. I think this company shouldn&#8217;t be underestimated, just because they aren&#8217;t 2K Boston.</p>
<p>2. Arguably, Rapture could be considered the biggest character in all of the Bioshock lore.  Having seen it&#8217;s already decrepit appearance after the fall of Andrew Ryan&#8217;s Utopia vision and being absorbed in it, it&#8217;s no wonder that they would have chosen the same place again only 10 years later. Seeing Rapture now, from a completely different perspective, both in terms of main character and philosophical viewpoint of Altruism, makes for a very interesting new take on the city. Sure, it&#8217;s the same art-deco style atmosphere and has the same people in it, but thats the point. It&#8217;s about the transformation, from good to bad and the attempt back to good again from the views of Sofia Lamb, Andrew Ryan and Sinclair. Out of many, one, and out of one, many.</p>
<p>3. While the multiplayer does seem &#8216;tacked on&#8217; so to speak, the concept of it remains very interesting. Having at least an original approach to the online experience, you take on the roll of someone before and during the major events of   the Fall of Rapture. This makes for an intriguing sort of prequel within a sequel aspect.  You see and interact with parts and areas of Rapture not seen before Bioshock 1. The inclusion of plasmids and weapons also seems fresh, although we&#8217;ll see how it is gameplay wise. Certainly it doesn&#8217;t compete with Modern Warfare 2 or Bad Compnay , etc, but maybe thats not the point. A Single player story within an online multiplayer is something to try to embrace.</p>
<p>4. The Good ol&#8217; Big Daddy.  You play as the very first one, and the suit design is less than &#8216;Big&#8217;. You are the first prototype. You&#8217;re tied to a little sister that still lives in Rapture.  It may seem like there isn&#8217;t story there, but it can be pulled off. Perhaps a story about the driving force of being selfless while entrapped in the new Sofia Lamb Society of All over One can work? It may prove to be a sad tale, about hopeless redemption in sight of everything failing. That last push to save things, even if the Big Daddy is emotionless or whatever&#8230;.who knows..</p>
<p>5. I kind of agree on this part. The biggest draw of Bioshock is indeed in how it tell it&#8217;s sorrowful tale through recordings and the environment. Of course, the big daddy is going to be more action- oriented than Jack from the first game, but that doesn&#8217;t mean it should be all about combat. Who knows on that. We&#8217;ll see.</p>
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		<title>By: spike0918</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7432</link>
		<dc:creator>spike0918</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7432</guid>
		<description>Well I didn&#039;t want to be the one to say this, but &quot;squirmishes&quot; is a mispelling for skirmish right?

I also wish to say that the multiplayer component as you have most likely hear is being developed by a different devoloper and thus will not drastically effect the quality of the single player.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I didn&#8217;t want to be the one to say this, but &#8220;squirmishes&#8221; is a mispelling for skirmish right?</p>
<p>I also wish to say that the multiplayer component as you have most likely hear is being developed by a different devoloper and thus will not drastically effect the quality of the single player.</p>
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		<title>By: zekana</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7431</link>
		<dc:creator>zekana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7431</guid>
		<description>When I saw the trailer for this game, I knew they pulled the same shit they did with MP3.
Metroid prime 1 was an amazing adventure/platformer with a beautiful and alive world that made you interested in exploring and finding these wierd yet earthly things.  MP2 was a tad of a dissapointment.  It gained many gameplay add ons and such but it lost the feel of the first one.  It wasn&#039;t organic, it felt stale and inorganic.
Then came along MP3, and dear god was that the biggest let down as a metroid fan.

Bioshock 2 will appeal to more people, but will alienate the fans of the original.  But I must wonder if they had stayed true to the experience and made the game like they did the first one, would fans still like it or would they be tired of the formula?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I saw the trailer for this game, I knew they pulled the same shit they did with MP3.<br />
Metroid prime 1 was an amazing adventure/platformer with a beautiful and alive world that made you interested in exploring and finding these wierd yet earthly things.  MP2 was a tad of a dissapointment.  It gained many gameplay add ons and such but it lost the feel of the first one.  It wasn&#8217;t organic, it felt stale and inorganic.<br />
Then came along MP3, and dear god was that the biggest let down as a metroid fan.</p>
<p>Bioshock 2 will appeal to more people, but will alienate the fans of the original.  But I must wonder if they had stayed true to the experience and made the game like they did the first one, would fans still like it or would they be tired of the formula?</p>
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		<title>By: Skrammas</title>
		<link>http://4playerpodcast.com/2010/02/08/managing-hype-the-case-of-bioshock-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7430</link>
		<dc:creator>Skrammas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://4playerpodcast.com/?p=3262#comment-7430</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really hoping I can pick this up soon. I love to watch 4PP, Ven, cous, etc. but during game releases I simply can&#039;t if its something I&#039;m hyped for. And the game only popped on my radar within the last week with a &quot;Wow the games coming out next week&quot;. Only problem I see is that you can&#039;t go back to past levels, which is a bummer for the collector inside me. I&#039;m expecting more Bioshock but less atmosphere I guess. But I hope you like it Nick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really hoping I can pick this up soon. I love to watch 4PP, Ven, cous, etc. but during game releases I simply can&#8217;t if its something I&#8217;m hyped for. And the game only popped on my radar within the last week with a &#8220;Wow the games coming out next week&#8221;. Only problem I see is that you can&#8217;t go back to past levels, which is a bummer for the collector inside me. I&#8217;m expecting more Bioshock but less atmosphere I guess. But I hope you like it Nick.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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